not have any. So what we’re going to do is start taking it awayrnfrom you until it gets down to where you recognize it. Whenrnyou can count your money, Paul, raise your hand and we’ll stoprntaking it away.”rnQ: You spoke in 1968 of the “militarization of American life.”rnHow have we been changed bv our 50-year experience withrnwhat George Washington warned against: an “overgrown militaryrnestablishment”?rnAiTocqueville warned about democracies creating a militaryrnestablishment that was bigger than needed, for it becomes a republicrnwithin a republic. And that’s what we have now.rnQ: To some extent, isn’t this the result of defense commitmentsrnmade by Democrats in the 1940’s?rnA: I went to Congress in 1949, and we cut the defense budgetrnbefore the Korean War to, I think, $16 billion a year. Then thernwar came on, and it went up and never came down again. Thernmilitary-industrial complex was not in place in 1950: it was onlyrnafter the Korean War that they put their marbles in a row.rnYou couldn’t touch them after that.rnYou could see the military-industrial complex developing,rnthough, in the 1947 Defense Reorganization Act, and in thernchanging of the “War Department” into the “Department ofrnDefense.” I called the Pentagon and asked, how did this happen?rnThere must ha’e been a meeting where somebody saidrnlook, we’re gonna change the name of this damn thing, becausernif we call it the War Department people are gonna say,rn”Where’s the war? And if there isn’t one, where are you gonnarnhave it?” And we don’t want to answer that question. So let’srncall it the Department of Defense because defense is unlimited.rnAnd it’s true: we never declare war anymore. We just declarernnational defense.rnAnd then they did away with the draft. The volunteer armyrnis really a mercenary army. The militarists said we want anrnarmy that is there because they want to fight: they’re underrncontract and will fight any kind of war. The liberals said, wernwant an army in which we don’t have to fight if we don’t wantrnto; }ou can stay out of a war you don’t like, hi Desert Storm,rnsome of the soldiers said they signed up, they have a contract,rnand so they gotta fight. And some of the people who mightrnhave been critical of the war said, “They signed up; they gottarnfight.” So it insulated a military action from any kind of socialrnor moral judgment.rnQ: You’ve written of “our loss of control over our foreign andrnmilitary policy.” What do you mean by that?rnA: There was really no decision made on Desert Storm: it wasrnkind of a happening. I suppose it started, linguistically, whenrnNixon called the Cambodian action an “incursion.” It was thernfirst “incursion” in history. You wonder where they get a wordrnlike that. There’s no verb for incursion. You can’t “incurse.” Inrnan invasion, you “invade”; an incursion, on the other hand, isrnan existential happening. Who, me? Who decided? It justrnhappened. They started to call Grenada an “incursion” but itrnworked too well so they called it an “invasion.”rnNow that communism is gone, they’re building up the realrndanger: Islamic fundamentalism! Allah is coming. I thoughtrnwe’d done in Allah in Desert Storm. It’s crazy. Bhutto arguedrnthat Pakistan should have a nuclear bomb, that Islam was thernonly major religion that didn’t have the bomb. The Christiansrngot their God and they got their bombs. The atheists have lotsrnof bombs, but no God. The Israelis got the bomb to go alongrnwith Yahweh, but he was never very reliable, he just had tricks:rnblow the trumpet and the walls will fall, stop the sun in the sky.rnIn Islam, all the’ had was Allah, and Allah really needed somernsupport.rnQ: You eosponsored the Immigration Act of 1965. If you knewrnthen what you know now . ..rnA: Most of what happened came later. The act anticipated immigrationrnof about 360,000 a year, but the automatic provisionsrngot out of control. The act’s numbers were reasonable,rnand it did away with the traditional standards that were basedrnon prejudice.rnQ: Is there a case to be made for those standards?rnA: If we’re going to bring in people from strange cultures, wernshould do more to assimilate them. We throw them into a veryrncomplicated culture and they tend to congregate and not assimilate.rnThis automatic stuff for family relationships: it isn’trneven logical. If you say the American experience is one wernwant people to have so they can feed it back to their own people,rnyou ought to have people from as many families as you can.rnBut to concentrate it in family groups: there’s no feedback.rnThen we got into letting in refugees. We created most ofrnthem: Laotians, Cambodians. . .rnQ: The chickens of empire coming home to roost.rnA: That’s right. The whole Cuban thing was the result of thatrncrazy invasion. We get Cuban refugees determining policy towardrnCuba and Hispanics determining policy toward Mexico.rnQ: Would it be best if the Spanish-speaking regions of therncountry simply seceded? We’re not really part of the samerncountry, are we?rnA: Well, it gets worse. Concerning Spaniards, most of themrnwon’t really learn English, and we discourage assimilation withrnbilingual education. In 1977 or 1978, I spoke to the InternationalrnCartoonists of the Western Hemisphere—not of thernworld, just of the Western Hemisphere—and a Mexican cartoonistrnsaid, what’s your position on the return of the PanamarnCanal? I said I would do it, but to offset it you have to takernTexas. He said we’ll take the land but not the people. So it mayrnbe good policy to do what you said: give ’em half of Texas. Werntook it from you, and we’ll give it back to you.rnQ: Should we worry about foreign investment: for instance,rnGerman corporations buying up Iowa farmland?rnA: I don’t worry much about land because they can’t take itrnaway—you can expropriate it. I’m more concerned aboutrnMurdoch getting control of television stations when there’s nornevidence he has any concept of what America is. You give himrncontrol over things which should not be subject only to commercialrnstandards for judging success.rnIn 1960, when I was campaigning for Kennedy, people won-rn16/CHRONICLESrnrnrn